Автор: Bkmz (193.173.63.---)
Дата: 30-08-04 18:08
Dear YAX!
I was very glad to have read Your article in the Archive-03 of Newcrono. This is not first time when I feel pleased to read Your articles. Let me give You the ideas I got from one about Novgorod history.
1. When one reminds about the Viking concept of early Russia it is somehow forgot the Novgorod and Kiev records in the Deeds of St. Andrew who reportedly traveled in those lands and seeded his Religion.
Excuse me please for using "reportedly" which can easily be inserted into almost every historical statement. The word "traditionally" has too many meanings in our conversation.
2. We have many cities all around the world which start with 'New'. Very few of them have the 'Old' analogues. In many cases the prototypes have no definition.
Examples: Polotsk - Novopolotsk, York - New York, Brandenburg - Neubrandenburg.
The pairs like Novyi Oskol - Staryi Oskol can be found as well. They are very few.
Very interesting case is Riazan which is now the name of former Pereiaslavl Riazanskii. Old city is called now Staraia Riazan. It seams to be the only example like this. And of cause this is along the traditional history version.
3. Do You feel (know) any connection between Novogrudok and Grodna? The latter means something close to "garden" or "guard" in Russian. The both towns can naturally get their names for their defensive function.
4. Can You guess it proved that N.Novgorod's "former name" was not invented in the same style and time as Perm for Iegoshiha(?), Viatka for Hlynov and (thank You) Novograd for Zviagel? Excuse please my hesitation to dismiss the question about 'upper' Novgorod on Volga.
5. Yes, it is interesting that GORODA meant 'limits', 'lands' not very long ago. May I ask You for more elaborate explanation how to make this a key to early Novgorod history? The following proofs of Novgorod and Pskov independence in 17th century look much more profound.
6. It seems that the Novgorod archaeological excavations started after the War in another place, different from where it was done in 30ths. Many times I read and heard the archaeologists who stated this started only after the war. This provides prof. Fomenko with supposition that the upper part of the cultural layer was the remains of city destroyed twice in 1941 and 1943. Hence it is probable that the wooden pavements were still in use shortly before the excavations.
7. Not a word about Moscow and Prince Ivan in Novgorod birch letters. May we suppose that letters found were mostly concentrated on everyday economical, social and cultural life of the authors. Not on governmental issues. It is no doubt Moscow was not so big in Novgorod (or Murom) local trade as it is nowadays.
8. Yes. The old Orthodox Books were burnt by the reformers in 1650. Still it is very well known that very many communities of old church supporters kept their own holy books safe in their exile or in 'depths of Taiga'. Should we suppose these books were falsified when the religious restrictions loosened in 19th century? Do they have Greek letters in these books? I do not know. Can we check?
9. From Tobolsk to Kair. To Algeria You mean&
10. 'Dei osudarevy' can simply be derived from DEAL (deiati) and JUDGE (sud). They can be translated as the 'court ministers'. I do not have the intention to tell that this COURT must be different from the Moscow Kremlin High Prince's one.
11. The technological evidences are very nice! I must consult the steel technologists but the facts are really nice!!! By the way - where did the Russian princes mine silver (and gold)? When did this industry start?
12. It is very shocking (to me at least) that the Onisim's pupil alphabet consists of syllables in alphabet order! This makes me suspect that that time the syllable writing system was not completely over in use. Might the boy put the syllables down to follow another system, older, relic, more or less like what they now have in Japanese Kanas and Indian Deva Nagari (and others)?
This would mean the time is really very short! There was no big time period between Bible origin to Novgorod birch letters.
13. Novgorod dates was the initial question I put. One of prof. Ianin's bases was dendro-base. He pretends to have built the continuous dendric rings scale from the beginning of wooden pavements building to its end.
As one can find in Arhangelsk the wooden plank pavement is still in use in the present Russia. I saw that in 2001-2002.
Can anyone explain when and why should Novgorod citizens have dropped this technology before asphalt was involved?
The layer time periods can easily be calculated basing on the dendrochrono-data. It requires no presumption on 20 or 10 years. It requires the accuracy in rings widths measuring - involving the modern math statistics.
14. It is still the question. Did any researcher fulfill any comparison of the 'upper' edge of Ianin's dendro chronology to the wooden material of the wooden houses built in the XIX-XX centuries? Provided that a pine trunk needs like 30-40 years to grow to the constructive size, the overlap with the Novgorod wooden pavements has to be considerable if prof. Ianin is a fable teller and Novgorod on Ilmen - lake was founded only 500-400 years ago.
I know that the wooden houses are to be renovated and some of them are not in so good form as the wood from Novgorod excavations. Still it is possible to find some material to judge the traditional dating. The rivers in the north of Russia contain much wood harvested in Soviet time, St. Petersburg was built on the fir-tree posts some of which are excavated recently to produce luxury furniture etc.
Let me conclude my message with expression of gratitude for the text You have presented. It is very important to construct our past and no criticism should be regarded as total or partial denial of the concept which is still very unclear.
With my best Regards
Bkmz
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